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dawog
Tl Posts:
15

USA
Posted - 10/29/2003 2:53:21 PM  Show Profile  Email Poster  Edit Message  dawogs Homepage
I have two ISPs, and have been alternating between them with both the 5699B & 5610B modems. So far, I really can't see any ISP-related differences in the diagnostic data I've collected so far. I've checked the tele box connections & they look fine. As for the line leaving tele box, it's buried. I'm sure there's a pole somewhere not too far away where it starts from. I'll have to check that.

I used Hyperterminal (BTW, thanks for the instructions!) to connect to both ISPs with the 5699B modem and the results of the ATy11 command were identical, and almost exactly the same as the results I get when using DUN:

Freq Level (dB)
150 22
300 22
450 20
600 20
750 20
900 21
1050 21
1200 21
1350 21
1500 22
1650 22
1800 23
1950 23
2100 24
2250 24
2400 25
2550 25
2700 25
2850 26
3000 26
3150 26
3300 26
3450 27
3600 28
3750 31

This is pretty much the same for all the ATy11 data I've collected on the 5699B over the past week. It appears to be fairly stable and doesn't seem to vary at all with the quality of the connection. The 5610B "ATy11" data is slightly different, but also has been fairly stable over the past week (no matter the quality of the connection).

Freq Level (dB)
150 17
300 16
450 16
600 16
750 17
900 17
1050 17
1200 18
1350 18
1500 18
1650 19
1800 19
2100 20
2250 20
2550 22
2700 22
2850 22
3000 23
3150 23
3300 23
3450 25
3600 28
3750 32

The freq response on my old USR 56K faxmodem is as follows:

Freq Level (dB)
150 24
300 22
450 22
600 22
750 23
900 23
1050 23
1200 24
1350 24
1500 24
1650 25
1800 25
1950 25
2100 26
2250 27
2400 27
2550 27
2700 28
2850 28
3000 28
3150 28
3300 29
3450 30
3600 33
3750 38

Bill

charles
Tl Posts:
5879

USA
Posted - 10/30/2003 9:13:03 AM  Show Profile  Email Poster  Edit Message
I have seen this problem with USR modems with all OS. Problems with updating there modems for XP and V92. I think what they did was try to upgrade there modems with flash and modem drivers but no hardware upgrades. Have you ever tried other chip set modems on this line? Might also run sysedit and go to WIN.INI go down to ports,check settings.Could also try this pc at another location that has a known good connection to verify the bad phone line problem.Have you checked this pc in safe mode and checked all hardware for more than one entry? Might return modem for other chipset modem. I like the lucent chipset myself because it more user friendly and the drivers are easy to work with.

http://modemsite.com/56k/_56surdx.asp?r=50443&c=US1


Edited by - charles on 10/30/2003 9:26:01 AM

v.Richard
Tl Posts:
6222

USA
Posted - 10/30/2003 9:28:15 AM  Show Profile  Email Poster  Edit Message  v.Richards Homepage
I would also like to see at least a couple ati11 and ati6 screens -

I would suspect that your line might be on some sort of digital carrier system that USR cannot handle. The aty11 freq response is very good.
Also See
www.modemsite.com/56k/diag3com.asp

Without trying, you won't know if a different chipset (Conexant, Agere, PCTel) can handle your line.

I wouldn't conclude your line is 'noisy' (at least not yet) - I'd say the USR isn't able to handle your line conditions.

Aloha! Richard.

charles
Tl Posts:
5879

USA
Posted - 10/30/2003 10:01:45 AM  Show Profile  Email Poster  Edit Message
Richard he has posted more info on line check here,see what you think.
http://home.datawest.net/dawog/USR%20Modem%20Diary.htm
dawog
Tl Posts:
15

USA
Posted - 10/31/2003 1:15:04 AM  Show Profile  Email Poster  Edit Message  dawogs Homepage
I've also posted an Excel spreadsheet that has all the diagnostics (ati6, ati11 & aty11) I've collected over the past 2 weeks.
http://home.datawest.net/dawog/modem_data2.xls
(If anyone's interested in the MS Access database with this data, let me know & I can post it)

One thing I've noticed is that for item 9 of the "Status Line" (CODEC Distortion), both the 5699B & 5610B ranges from high 50's to low 70's. On the other hand, my old USR 56K Faxmodem has values that are all in the 20's. The link you provided indicates that "50's - 70's" is bad, while 20's are typical. Also, concerning item #6 of the Status Line (# RBS links), out of 48 values collected, all are "2N" except for 14, which vary from 0Y to 6Y. I didn't think this was a parameter that would vary from connection to connection (especially going from "N" to "Y").

Another observation: I've only dialed out using HyperTerminal a few times (yesterday), but when I did the modem connected very quickly, often at speeds of 44K (after sending the AT&F1 command). Using the AF&F1 command via the Dial Up Network almost always results in LONG negotiations that fail to connect. The only reliable connections I'm getting with either modem is when I limit the max connect speed to 33.6K or less.

And lastly, a comment that actually coincides with this topic's subject: I was able to move the 5610B from COM5 to COM3 by editting the registry (following the Dell Support site instructions referenced elsewhere in this forum), and subsequently use Hyperterminal to query the diagnostics. An unfortunate side effect was that this also apparently disabled the two USB ports on the top of my PC case. So I had to set the 5610B back to COM5 to get them back. Oh well... live & learn.

Bill

v.Richard
Tl Posts:
6222

USA
Posted - 11/6/2003 9:24:36 AM  Show Profile  Email Poster  Edit Message  v.Richards Homepage
OK - sorry about missing the extensive diagnostics.

What I am dying to know - what kind of connects you would get with different (non-USR) chipsets?

If I were in your situation, I would try and get more info from the telco about how your lines are provisioned - where the switch is, how long your line is, etc. (This takes some "social engineering" as this isn't the kind of info the telco is set up to provide to you)....

Your line might not be "noisy" - except to the USR (it being unable to correctly learn the digital impairments), or, there could be a telco problem like a line-coding mis-match -
http://modemsite.com/56k/coding.asp
or...?

Aloha! Richard.

charles
Tl Posts:
5879

USA
Posted - 11/7/2003 2:27:18 AM  Show Profile  Email Poster  Edit Message
From what I can see the line looks good.Are these modem sharing any IRQ with other devices. Have you checked the port in the win.ini file?
dawog
Tl Posts:
15

USA
Posted - 11/10/2003 11:23:15 PM  Show Profile  Email Poster  Edit Message  dawogs Homepage
First off - I ordered the modem on your website. I, too, am anxious to see how another chipset will perform. I'm kinda wondering if my 5-yr-old USR 56K modem has a different chipset. I did several more tests with it on my old PC, and it performed flawlessly. Out of eleven tests, all SNR's are in the mid to upper 40's except for one entry. In fact, most all the diagnostic values are "nominal".

Charles - the port setting in the WIN.INI file is:
COM2:=115200,n,8,1,x
The 5699B is on COM2, using IRQ 3. The only other device using that IRQ is "ACPI IRQ Holder for PCI IRQ Steering".

The 5610B was on COM5 & there is no entry in WIN.INI for this port. It was sharing an IRQ with both the integrated sound, SMBus controller & a holder for PCI IRQ steering. It behaved exactly the same as it did when it was the only modem installed in my PC.

Tonight I removed the 5610B from my new PC and installed it in my old PC. I've updated the spreadsheet & diary with the results. Other than the first connection after installing, it behaved the same (or worse, actually) than it did in my new PC.

This weekend I reinstalled the drivers for the 5699B (& removed & reinstalled the modem). It would no longer connect to one of my ISPs, always returning error 691. After rebooting, I noticed in the ATI7 command that the version was now 5.00.001.156. It was previously 5.00.001.120. (I noticed this previously on 10/18/03 when I installed new drivers). Now the 5699B connected w/no init string, and it displayed the correct connect speed in the modem status in the task bar. But other than that, it behaves in pretty much the same crappy way as before. I have to slow down the max speed in order to get a "reliable" connection (AT&U8&N16 init string).

That's one thing that has been consistent with these two modems. Before I found your website, in order to get a connection I'd uninstall (& physically remove) the modem & reinstall it. I'd quite often get a usable connection the first try after installing. Then they always gravitate back to their routine lousy behavior. The 5610B, when I installed it in my old PC, connected quickly the first time & the connection was usable for at least 30 minutes. After that, it's behavior deteriorated to the low levels of performance I'm experiencing on the new PC.

Thanks again for all your help! I think I've certainly gotten my $136 worth of education! I'll let you know the results when the new modem arrives.
Edited by - dawog on 11/11/2003 11:05:35 AM

dawog
Tl Posts:
15

USA
Posted - 11/11/2003 10:19:37 AM  Show Profile  Email Poster  Edit Message  dawogs Homepage
I've been rereading your article on Line Coding Errors that you referenced previously, and am wondering if that could be one of my problems. Over the past 5 years, I have experienced "time of day" problems with my old USR 56K Internal faxmodem. It's an OEM version, marked "Sportster Model 0460" on the circuit board. Even though this modem has worked flawlessly since day one, it did sometimes experience disconnects during peak evening hours (1700-2200 local). I often lowered the max connect speed during these hours to 37.3 kbps to obtain solid connections. After 2200, I'd let it connect at 44k - 48k for reliable connections.

Is there anyway for me to "confirm" a Line Coding problem on my end (i.e., with modem diagnostics)? Does Status 9 (Codec Distortion) reflect this in anyway? I've copied the "averages" of all my testing below (retrains req, blers, ping, link info, SNR, 2 pt training & Codec distortion). If this isn't readable, I'll post it on my web site.

quote:

Modem # ISP Retrains_Req Blers_ Ping Link_Timeout Link_Nak SNR 2-Pt-Trng Codec Dist
5610B 26 DW 6.00 82.40 242.00 15.27 17.00 38.94 43.05 -62.73
5610B 25 HPI 4.53 164.56 278.38 13.65 28.00 36.28 43.47 -66.88
5610B (Old PC) 2 DW 2.50 15.00 6.50 0.50 40.75 45.00 -68.10
5610B (Old PC) 7 HPI 5.50 130.50 245.00 16.33 4.83 35.28 45.05 -66.40
5699B 59 DW 0.92 1457.92 294.93 1.05 0.00 37.06 43.79 63.41
5699B 89 HPI 3.10 1114.76 295.07 6.22 0.00 34.52 42.75 64.64
Old 56K 1 DW 0.00 974.00 183.00 0.00 2.00 47.50 45.70 15.80
Old 56K 10 HPI 0.50 363.30 216.88 0.40 16.00 43.78 44.09 24.69

Cheers!

Bill

dawog
Tl Posts:
15

USA
Posted - 11/11/2003 10:36:48 AM  Show Profile  Email Poster  Edit Message  dawogs Homepage
One more try @ posting that table of averages...
quote:

Modem ISP # Retrain Blers Ping Link_T/O Link_Nak SNR 2Pt-Tng Codec
5610B DW 26 6.0 82.4 242.0 15.3 17.0 38.9 43.1 -62.7
5610B HPI 25 4.5 164.6 278.4 13.6 28.0 36.3 43.5 -66.9
5610B (Old PC) DW 2 2.5 15.0 6.5 0.5 40.7 45.0 -68.1
5610B (Old PC) HPI 7 5.5 130.5 245.0 16.3 4.8 35.3 45.1 -66.4
5699B DW 59 0.9 1457.9 294.9 1.1 0.0 37.1 43.8 63.4
5699B HPI 89 3.1 1114.8 295.1 6.2 0.0 34.5 42.7 64.6
Old 56K DW 1 0.0 974.0 183.0 0.0 2.0 47.5 45.7 15.8
Old 56K HPI 10 0.5 363.3 216.9 0.4 16.0 43.8 44.1 24.7

Bill

dawog
Tl Posts:
15

USA
Posted - 11/11/2003 11:02:14 AM  Show Profile  Email Poster  Edit Message  dawogs Homepage
Here's a link to the modem average values, since the above is not very readable:

http://home.datawest.net/dawog/USR%20Modem%20Averages.htm

Bill
Edited by - dawog on 11/11/2003 11:09:20 AM

dawog
Tl Posts:
15

USA
Posted - 11/11/2003 12:27:57 PM  Show Profile  Email Poster  Edit Message  dawogs Homepage
Oh... I also changed the file name for the Excel spreadsheet of modem diagnostics. Sorry.

http://home.datawest.net/dawog/modem_data.xls

Bill

dawog
Tl Posts:
15

USA
Posted - 11/12/2003 8:39:36 PM  Show Profile  Email Poster  Edit Message  dawogs Homepage
Hey! What are you guys trying to do! Make me do something productive during my evening hours & weekends? I was really gettin' into troubleshooting my two new USR modems (5699B & 5610B)! I mean... it was gettin' to be a full time job!

Yup. You guessed it. Your Modemsite V.92 DSP modem arrived today. Installed it tonight & it works FLAWLESSLY! Although it's connecting at 34,666 bps, I'm getting ping rates 75-100% better than even my old USR 56K modem (which usually connected @ 44k - 48k). Granted, I've only made two connections - one to each of my ISPs. But I've been on both connections for over an hour with no burps & extremely fast throughput. I can't tell you how impressed I am.

I'd still like to figure out my USR modems, though (especially since I'm stuck with them). I really hate to see what used to be a good company go down the tubes. Do you think the problems are hardware related? or is it possible to find an "inf" (software) fix and/or modem string that would get them to at least perform reliably?

Anywho's... thanks again for all your help! I'll post the Agere log & diagnostics in the same diary & spreadsheet later tonight.

Regards,

Bill
Edited by - dawog on 11/12/2003 8:40:50 PM

v.Richard
Tl Posts:
6222

USA
Posted - 11/13/2003 9:52:43 AM  Show Profile  Email Poster  Edit Message  v.Richards Homepage
The 34.6k rate - although reliable - reinforces my feeling that you're encountering something 'unusual' in the digital portion of your calls ---

A line coding problem? combined with 'unusual' RBS?
www.modemsite.com/56k/rbs2.asp

A couple of your ati11 status results from the USRs show the 'B' type codec -
"a 'Y' here indicates a type-B codec, typically found in analog COs or in genuine SLC96. IMPORTANT- a type-B codec 'ignores' the LSB in the digital stream when converting the signal to your analog line; if you actually have a type-B codec, your 56k rates will be impaired; not all client modems' firmware work with a type-B codec, but 3Com clients should work. If you have an RBS-related problem, a 3Com client might sometimes erroneously indicate a type-B codec."
www.modemsite.com/56k/diag3com.asp

Try and get telco repair to do a BERT test from wherever your linecard is to its facilities that handle calls to your ISP(s)....

Aloha! Richard.

dawog
Tl Posts:
15

USA
Posted - 11/13/2003 8:49:24 PM  Show Profile  Email Poster  Edit Message  dawogs Homepage
Thanks for your response Richard!

I knew I shouldn't have posted my comments on the Agere modem after only 2 connections. I don't normally subscribe to "overconfidence", but I let myself slip last night. It's only gotten worse (but not terrible) since then. I do have a couple of "bottom lines":

1) Your modem connects each and every time. If a connection "dies" (while still connected), all further connection attempts result in "destination address unreachable" and "hostname could not be resolved.". I don't think that's a modem problem, but rather a problem in my TCP/IP stack (or whatever they call it on PCs these days) in my PC. I have to reboot to regain use of the modem. Also, if the connection dies, Windows98 always hangs during shutdown (further leading me to believe there's a software problem on my system). I've unstalled & removed the modem & reinstalled in a different PCI slot to eliminate some IRQ sharing, but this didn't appear to have any effect. This has not occurred with either of my USR modems.

2) I wanted a modem that connected reliably. Connecting fast is desirable, but not a must. Your modem works flawlessly in this respect. I would like to eliminate the problem I'm having (if possible) with connections that "die" while connected, requiring a reboot to regain use of the modem. I keep close tabs on whats running in the background, and don't have any "unnecessary" programs present. I do use CallWave (internet answering maching), which intercepts incoming calls (via call forwarding), records messages, & downloads the voice message to my PC. I don't think it's an issue... but who knows?

I've posted a diary of the Agere results here:

http://home.datawest.net/dawog/Agere%20Modem%20Diary.htm

I'm a big believer in the fact that you learn the most from "things" that don't work as expected (if, of course, you choose to try to figure out why they aren't working). In light of that, I'm thrilled that I've had problems with my modems (got to find a positive "light" about this somewhere, eh?). I've learned more about modems & telecommunications this past couple months than I thought possible, and I owe it all to you (Richard), your fantastic web site, and your posters (Charles). I can't thank you enough for your help.

The one thing that always sits in the back of my mind is my old USR 56K modem. It, too, always connects reliably, at speeds between 42.6 kbps & 48 kbps, with download throughputs of 4.2 to 4.8 k bytes rec'd/sec, although it's ping rates aren't as low as your modem achieves at its lower connect speeds. It very seldom dies during a connection (e.g., maybe only once or twice a month). Only the 5699B reported a "Y" in status 6, in 18 out of 53 connections (in which status 6 was recorded). We do have ISDN available at our location, and I'm considering getting it since other broadband choices are limited.

I did hear back from USR today & they want me to return both modems. I'm not optimistic that the returned modems will function any differently, but what the hey... might as well try.

My last bottom line: I don't want to "abuse" the bandwidth I've consumed on your site, so don't hesitate to ask me to "cool it" for a while. I'm also good at "lurking."

I've read your diagnostics page on this modem, but still don't have a good feeling (yet) of what's "normal" with the ATi11 results.

Thanks again for all your great support!!!

Bill

Edited by - dawog on 11/13/2003 8:52:40 PM

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